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stoneman 12:18 Sat Jan 3
Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

The Maltese version not the Scots ones.

They love a rapist in Malta.

I expect Jessica Ennis and Charlie Webster to boycott the Island.

Coffee 2:37 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

BRANDED 1:42 Sat Jan 10

That's a good question, but it begs other important questions: what is rape, and when is rape not rape? To my understanding, rape is non-consensual sex.

From the appeal transcript, it sounds like the girl went with the first fellow to his hotel knowing she was likely to bonk him. Then Evans turns up and who knows what happened then? If he forced himself onto her without her consent, that must constitute rape. But if she kind of agreed to it under the influence of alcohol but would not have done if she'd been sober, is that still rape? Leaving aside the dubious nature of one man doing what he did to her just after she's had sex with his mate, to my mind that is not rape. Just as men have to take ownership of their behaviour under the influence of alcohol, so do women.

As for the law which, as Sock describes it, puts the onus on the man to demonstrate that consent was given, I find that highly contentious. In such an intimate context, you're unlikely to have other witnesses around to support one side or the other, so it'll often be one person's word against another's except in extreme cases.

Mr Polite 2:12 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

If that's what you want to explain to an 8 year old Branded.


Personally, I just teach my son to respect everyone including women. Dont feel the need to go into details of what rape is and why he shouldn't do it

BRANDED 2:05 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Mr Polite 1:59 Sat Jan 10

Or you say he is a convicted rapist and spell out exactly what that is and why your son should never ever even consider such actions?

cygnet 2:03 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Some here might remember Mike Tyson turning up at a game involving West Ham
It was at Peterborough United a few years back. I remember collective jaws dropping when he was introduced at half time.
I was told later that Tyson charged £85 for each photo taken with him and all the players were happy to pay up.
Here's a link. The Posh Youth team seem happy enough to pose with their 'role model'.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/west_ham_utd/34978/boxing-legend-mike-tyson-shows-up-at-peterborough-v-west-ham-friendly.html?pid=9428

Vexed 2:00 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

BRANDED 1:55 Sat Jan 10

Euurgh. Is that what Ched did?

Mr Polite 1:59 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

gph

Maybe not, but when you ask your dad why he gets booed every time he touches the ball and your dad speaks negatively of him, maybe saying something like 'he is nasty to women' or similar, chances are that would be enough for you to not consider him someone to look up to

gph 1:57 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Mr Polite - maybe I had a sheltered childhood, but I'm fairly sure I didn't know what rape was when I was 8, so I couldn't reject a rapist as a hero.

BRANDED 1:55 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

That would probably be wise if one was so pervy in the first place. Eating out a cunt your mate just fucked?

Vexed 1:53 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

riosleftsock 1:48 Sat Jan 10

Kind of encourages people to make slighty pervy videos of said liaisons doesn't it? Just to make sure they dont get shafted themselves after she sobers up.

zebthecat 1:52 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

For all the ongoing debate the only people who have heard all the evidence are the original jury and the judges who chucked Evans out. No amount of idle speculation on an football forum are going change that,

Evans is guilty and that is it.

Mr Polite 1:50 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

DJH

Yes footballer can be role models, just like absolutely anyone can be.

The parenting bit comes from guiding your children to see what is right and wrong and bringing them up to know not to look up to people who do wrong.

If an 8 year old wanted to buy the boots or shirt of a player of questionable morals or indeed a criminal then the parent is allowed to say no - and explain why. But it shouldn't really get to that point if the parent has instilled that sense of right and wrong in the first place.

BRANDED 1:48 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Society is driven by attitudes and role models. I was once told there are probably 300,000 people in the UK that predominantly influence the rest of society.
As has been said many attitudes have changed over the years many for the better. It strikes me that this episode will make many many men think twice about acting like Ched Evans did.

I see adverts in pubs all the time now spelling it out for men that no means no and not one bit of alcohol in your system will excuse your behaviour.

riosleftsock 1:48 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Are many of you aware of the changes in the law regarding rape prosecution and conviction.

If you are not, I strongly suggest you go and read up on it.

Mainly because it relates directly to this case.

If the victim states that she can not remember giving consent and/or was incapable of giving consent, then the onus is on the defendant to prove that consent was given.

If he can not prove it, guilty.

Now, can you imagine this playing out across the country.

I'm not saying this makes him innocent but it seems to run contrary to the burden of proof having to be provided by the prosecutor and that the proof must be beyond reasonable doubt.

DJH 1:43 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Mr Polite, parents might be able to guide their kids to have good role models but surely you must accept children will always have idols and be influenced by their behaviour even it iis just to have the same haircut or wear the same boots.

An 8 year old kid loves footbal and his hero is the club's centre football, he has his name on his shirt and buys the boots he endorses and dreams of being someone like him when he grows up, do you really believe that makes someone a bad parent to like their child behave like this? If you say it depends on the player then you accept they can be role models then you face the problem that by one action a good one can become a bad one overnight, if that happens then I accept that is where parenting comes into it but it doesn't escape the fact footballers will be role models.

The chances are that there was more than one Sheffield United family who had to deal with something like above and no I am not saying their kids will go out and rape someone but simply through Evans actions they had a situation to deal with. As I mentioned before Mr Evans and other footballers enjoy a living because many folk are influenced by them so when they take the money they should accept the responsibility too.

Willtell 1:43 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Not sure what you mean wrighty. The hotel porter said he listened at the door and I doubt he has an axe to grind. Of course McDonald would agree with Evans - they're mates.

The important issue is that 3 men said she agreed.

One woman that "can't remember the whole night" remembers she did not give her permission!

Another relevant point is that the their was absolutely no medical evidence that she had had sex with either McDonald or Evans. The police only brought the case on the admission of both men that they had had consensual sex with her.

That's pretty strange to me and why this whole affair is typical of how even judges and juries are afraid of making innocent decisions in rape cases for fear of a media backlash imo....

BRANDED 1:42 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Coffee.

If you got massively pissed one evening and ended being raped what would you feel?

The problem is that attitude was always driven by males who cared less for the welfare of women in particular unless they were THEIR women.

Now attitude has be driven much more by females.

Coffee 1:39 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Willtell - that's roughly what it sounds like.

It's hard to have a discussion about this, because people love to accuse someone who questions the guilt of someone accused (or, in this case, convicted) of rape of defending rape itself. Funny that until the mid to late 1970s a lot of sexual abuse and even assault was brushed under the carpet or considered borderline acceptable - a "it happens, get over it" kind of attitude. It's good that this has changed, but I feel a bit uneasy about the almost hanging mob mentality that sometimes accompanies it.

BRANDED 1:37 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

This is the point.
He IS guilty in law.
You can think as much as you like but he IS guilty.
He may find a way to overturn the verdict but until then he IS guilty.

This is how law works.

Society acts in different ways. People with little knowledge of an issue will express opinion. Some with massive knowledge will. Both will have to have a convincing argument to win support. There has been no great argument in Ched's favour so far and as a result the important opinion is against him. In my opinion that is because he has gone about it the wrong way.

wrighty 1:35 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

They're hardly going to say it was rape are they?

Willtell 1:33 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Good point Coffee and the point that always struck me about this.

I am sure the jury assumed that her lack of memory meant she became comatose after sex with McDonald and did not agree to sex with Evans in spite of the only two witnesses saying she did agree...

inconsistant fc 1:32 Sat Jan 10
Re: Cher Evans to sign for Hibernian?

Good point Nicey,

The Black Keys used his Twatter account to promote their last album, Used to like them as well...

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